I found the issues went down a lot when I moved everyone to macOS. The OS itself is sandboxed, so a user can’t really destroy it. My mom downloaded some “screensavers” that were actually viruses, and since they were .exe files, they didn’t run or do anything.
I think the only thing better would be some kind of immutable OS, where each reboot restores it to its original state. I haven’t set up anything like this on hardware, but I’ve seen it as a VM offering.
Of course, if they are already used to some other system, like Windows, changing is probably more trouble than it’s worth. You could just really lock it down, so they only have access to certain applications and their home folder.
For the phone, if on iOS, Apple introduced Assistive Access not too long ago to dumb down the phone for people who might need it. You can control which apps they get, and present a simplified version of the apps.
https://support.apple.com/guide/assistive-access-iphone/set-...
If you don't want to change OS. Simply creating a non-admin account and installing ad-blockers will go a long way. Tell them most software on Internet have virus so install is blocked. Also enable remote desktop on all.
Edit: For some issues like airplane mode, see if you can remove them from quick access.
I’ve reduced 99% of tech calls from elderly family(60s-80s) by moving them to either ChromeOS/Android or MacOS/IOS and all printers to Brother lasers. If they spend money on phones I lean toward Apple ecosystem. If they penny pinch - Google is king with all second hand Samsung galaxy/books, Dell enterprise chromebooks, or chromeboxes - making sure to verify years of support. It also makes it significantly easier to not mix ecosystems. I then set updates to automatic and make ublockorigin default in the browser. The last 7 years nearly every issue was resolved with a restart.
We switched my grandmother-in-law over to Linux last year and the amount of support calls I've had to do has dropped to 0. All she does is use chrome to check her email, and occasionally edit a document. A majority of the time she phoned for me to come 'fix her computer' it was just a Windows update that had reset some setting, or was trying to get her to sign up for a Microsoft account before she could log in, or some other obnoxious crap that made her think that her computer was broken.
We put her on Debian with Cinnamon as the DE, and downloaded a Windows 10 theme. We even put the Windows 10 logo as the start button. For her, she has 0 idea that she's even using Linux except for the fact that her computer doesn't randomly "break" anymore. All this with the added benefit that I can do remote support far more easily now.
The other huge benefit is when other relatives come over and start poking and prodding, it's far harder for them to do any damage. A few times I needed to 'fix' things was because her 60 year-old son (who knows nothing about computers, but is a medical doctor so he must know what he's doing) would come over and install a bunch of scammy antivirus software, change a bunch of settings, then leave proclaiming that the problem was "fixed". Switching to Linux has helped at keeping his fingers out of the pot immensely.
I went all out for my gramp's PC:
- Linux Debian with default user privileges
- XFCE kiosk mode with everything as shortcut icons (that can't be deleted) + removed all UI access to everything else
- Monthly Borg save of the /home dir
- X2Go for screen sharing when assistance required
So that's the great thing with Linux: you can make it look exactly how you want (huge icons, etc.), and you basically just save the /home dir to save the "state" for the user. Downside is that config is a lot of work.
I set up Linux desktops for elderly relatives who wanted tech support, to universal satisfaction. They seem to not have many issues, since I get fewer than 5 support calls a year total, and I'm an experienced Linux user so fixing anything that does come up is usually easy (<1 of those is actually OS related, they're mostly questions like "how do I do X in LibreOffice again?" or "I got this scam email...").
It's also nice that the DEs I chose are relatively stable, not forcing them to keep up with changes. Running well on old and cheap hardware is also a plus, I couldn't convince anyone to buy a new or even used iMac (and wouldn't want to do that anyway, macOS is far from bug free...).
That said, none of them have self-destructive tendencies and I don't expect to just give them a device and have them set it up themselves.
ChromeOS is a good idea if all they do is surf; security risks are pretty low. iPhones are also fairly safe, but the older they get, the slower they'll get and the more you have to support them. I've had to explain to my dad that eventually the software on the phone will be so old that new apps can't go on it. He looks at me in confusion and aggression and asks why, as though I'm responsible for Apple's planned obsolescence.
My family was ultimately able to convince my grandmother to get rid of her computers altogether, when her dementia really kicked in. I think we were lucky as she never really got on with computers, and would tell anyone who'd listen how computers 'came in' to her office the year she retired (in the 90s) and so never needed to learn.
I moved my MIL to the Apple ecosystem circa 2009-2010 and have mostly been satisfied.
She has a normal (not admin) user account on her Mac. She cannot install applications*. Her Documents folder is synced to iCloud. Everything is backed up with Time Machine, and for good measure I rsync her home directory to my own backup periodically. She uses a locked down Google Worksplace account (this cost more since we pay for one admin account and her restricted account). She can access everything from her iPhone and her iPads.
Surprises: some applications can be downloaded and will install themselves into ~/Applications, these usually are the thousand or so zoom/webex/webmeetinggo variants. Initially we did not lock down her Google Chrome and she kept installing "Extensions that will speed up your browser experience!" which of course were scams, so we locked her out of installing Chrome Extensions (this has made it difficult to legitimately install chrome extensions unfortunately). She has, through what I'm guessing were bad UI questions for someone now in her 80s, wiped out her Documents folder multiple times, syncing the deletions to her iCloud. Minimal actual loss since thanks to my paranoid backup strategies.
Hard: she's been using Macs on and off since the 1990s. Each new recent release of MacOS or iOS has become a bit of a nightmare. While I get the relentless need to upgrade and improve and sell more widgets I really wish there was an LTS strategy we could opt into that was just security or sev 1 style bug fixes.
Really hard: I fell into this because every time she went into an Apple Store or tech shop for support they 1) would ask her what her Apple ID was and then just go off and create another one for her anyway. I found six before I got her to understand it's just her email address. 2) Every tech guy has his own way of doing shit, myself included, and it's utterly baffling to someone who simultaneously has been using computers for decades and yet is very much non technical.
She's in her mid 80s now, I think we're on her last MacBook Air, which I just moved her to in the past year or so. The next upgrade, if necessary, is probably to a Chromebook.
My father continuously had problems sending pictures over SMS, which would be super helpful so that I could help him accomplish tasks remotely. The built-in app on Android was too confusing for him thanks to cognitive decline. I made a super simple app that's only purpose was to send pics via SMS. One screen, contacts selected by drop down, camera view in the center, one button. Google wouldn't let me publish it because SMS apps on the Play Store have to implement ALL SMS functionality. I sent him the APK by email so at least there's that. It worked well for him at least. Fuck Google though.
My father is 84. On average once a week he calls me in a state of confusion and despair that he can’t do something on the computer. 100% of the time it involves logging in to a website or paying for something. This is when I’m so happy he has a Mac - I open Messages, find the last message from him and click on the Share Screen icon. We then complete the activity together, as if I’m sitting next to him. I’m always surprised how few people know this is built into macOS.
I'm saddened by the responses here. It's not older users' fault. Design teams at leading tech companies have gotten a free pass for designing mcmansions in software without realizing that kids weren't the only generation being damaged when we designed this mess. My only hope now is that a Jonathan Haidt and Tristan Harris arise from the ashes to protect the elderly without blaming them for software design mistakes arising over the last 3 decades that could have been avoided. Finance paved the way for abuse of the elderly. Sadly, big tech has picked up that torch and run with it.
Aside from the many excellent suggestions about how to mange the devices themselves, I'd highly recommend putting a pihole on the whole wifi network.
I added a pihole to my home network via a <$100 NUC (very much overkill for this purpose), and the rate of my relatives falling for weird viruses and scams has gone way down.
I think this will not go down well here on HackerNews because I'm going to suggest sticking up to Apple. Here is my experience. I tried with cheaper phones that we can just replace when they lose, drop it, or many other reasons.
Get them on iPhones, Macs, Apple TV, and iPads. They can be used ones or hand-me-downs, but that ecosystem works for them. Here is a setup for the in-laws.
An Apple TV drives as the "Apple Home" Setup while an iPad (the backup) is mounted near the TV. That room/area is the "talking to the kids area" where they just know how to respond or start a video call. The only other button they learned was to switch between their favorite local cable provider and the Apple TV. It did take a lot of repeated practice from "I can see on the iPad but not TV" to "seeing and talking on the big TV".
iPhones/Macs (instead of selling yours, give them your old one) are the easiest to set up and maintain. The contacts sync, and they have stopped complaining about getting back their phone contacts. The father-in-law once hand-wrote about a 5-paged A4 with about 200+ odd numbers and came to me to sync to the new phone. They are not losing their photos anymore and can spend hours browsing photos of their gigantic family members.
Tip: Set up your Apple TV screensaver with a specific Album and keep sharing photos there. Now, watch the grandparents, grand-everyone just sit in front of the screensaver and spend hours talking, laughing, arguing, crying, and sleeping off.
I started using computers in the 90s, my parents about 5 years later than me. I built a computer for my dad, at the time it ran Windows 2000, and I was already looking at Linux.
I couldn't switch my dad to Linux because his favourite game (DX-Ball) didn't run and he didn't like lbreakout2 or the other alternative, so I made a DX-Ball clone, when that was done, I switched his PC to Linux.
Having Linux on my parents computers made my life so much easier, I have automated backup running when they log in, the desktop only have relevant icons and they don't know their passwords so they can't sudo or do anything by mistake.
If a file is deleted by accident, there's 2 months of zfs snapshots to go through (I do that if they ask).
Phone, well, my mom has an android phone, no credit card attached, and I keep her google account password for her so she's not able to do anything too bad by accident.
Sounds like those parents would benefit from having a Chromebook?
If they want to play games then SteamDeck or such
Otherwise for phones, I just give my mum same/similar device to one I'm using (e.g. Motorola Moto G[number]). There's ~1800km in between us, so by using same or very similar device - I can hand hold her step by step.
And actually phone is usually not a problem - it's the TV. In order to have good Internet we've switched her from cable (coax so TV tuner was same as last few decades) to fiber. With fiber, now TV is basically IPTV/SmartTV - and she just wants to turn it on and use +/- and digits for channels and volume.
I bought them Chrome OS devices and I haven't had to do any tech support since. Phone wise, I have them on Android and I haven't had many problems, but I should have moved them to iOS when they were younger, as I find iOS UI is more stable across upgrades, which tend to leave the phone more or less behave how they used to and new behaviours are usually behind new settings/buttons. And elders who are not used to technology usually struggle whenever there are any UI changes.
This is the kind of stuff I do for my parents (early 70s):
- They both have the same phone: iPhone 13, so we all have a shared context for how phones work.
- Maintain Google Family/iCloud family subscriptions so they don't worry about storage or losing data. I do yearly in-person hard backups of their computers and phones (mostly photos).
- Create them synthetic iCloud accounts with email addresses that are just aliases for my email.
- Password managers + adblocking on everything. They don't know how to create passwords really but at least it autofills easily.
- They use Eero router and I am the admin - so I can remotely check network status, restart it, etc (this is REALLY nifty - "internet is messed up" questions dropped 100% when I switched this over from a NetGear router).
- Similarly, I set their router to NextDNS and block ads + threats for them.
in my experience:
1. linuxmint for PCs / laptops => either the cinnamon or mate edition <== for older hardware!!
and yes: semi-cheap brother or kyocera laserprinter - they also work like a charme with linux-based desktops ... but avoid the cheapest ones which sometimes need the windows-software for printing :)
2. either android phones or simple feature-phones with big buttons targeted at sight-impared / elderly people.
if you buy them new, avoid the ones which do not support LTE/4G ... depending on which country you are in: here in central/west europe they start to switch off UMTS/3G soon, so the old ones will fall back to GSM/2G.
if they don't need a computer:
3. android tablet for media consumption ... with at least a 10 inches screen, because of sight imparement!
nearly forgot that ... :)
just my 0.02€
Not exactly the answer to OP, but when we had to decide what device to buy for my mom, we bought her an iPad. Best choice ever. Zero maintenance, it's fast, she can do whatever she needs and wants and it's light and easy to move. Drop some water on it? It's fine. Not even the cat can destroy it.
My mother died a few years back, but my choice of OS was driven by finding someone who could give her local support. Telephone support just wasn't possible, because she was completely tech-illiterate and would get into some really strange situations, and get really impatient when I couldn't wave a magic wand through the phone connection.
There was a retired gentleman in her area who made a hobby of helping other elderly folk. He used Apple, so she used Apple. If he'd used Windows, or Linux, or whatever - then that's what she would have used.
If the cognitive load of migrating away from Windows is too much, ManageEngine is free for your use-case (for forcing updates/policies, monitoring, and managing access). I'd look at using Assigned Access too (previously known as Kiosk Mode) for locking down their environment to things like browsing the internet.. And nothing else: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/configuration/assi...
However, locked down Chromebooks and Android profiles are generally the best way to go. Not sure about the Apple ecosystem (even though that's what I'd choose - just haven't found readily available advice).
My mother needed a laptop for managing the finances of some little club
So she asked me what to get within a limited budget - a windows laptop. I set it up with firefox, ublock origin etc. removed all the bloat.
and for helping her with whatever, on the computer, i installed Rustdesk. It has a super simple ui so you can get the password over the phone - then i can login and manage her computer from my own computer. (Rustdesk is free and opensource remote desktop and file sharing program)
as for phone.. my mother uses a samsung smartphone. Its what she's used to. So i have also installed Firefox on there, with ublock origin and ... thats really all i needed to do. She can login to her email or whatever other apps she uses, by herself.
My mother is 71. Not a complete tech idiot but also not really experienced with anything other than regular office-use (email, notes, managing a calendar)
i chose android for her phone because i know it better - and ads... oh god i hate ads. Thank god for firefox and ublock origin.
as for my grandmother who's over 100 years old... she has a landline. And thats it.
You don't need Intune, that's a fancy cloud thing to manage lots of machines. You can manage permissions on a local machine using Local Users and Groups (lusrmgr). Also get either uBlock Origin or Brave Browser with shields.
Chromeos flex could be worth looking at, and depending on the build of their old machine, they may not need to buy a new computer at all. CPU, RAM, and SSD upgrades could help if it's 15+ years old though.
I recently did this to my family's old 20" 2007 iMac and it's perfectly adequate for light web browsing, email, and youtube. Not too shabby for a 17 year old computer.
The best part is that it's secure and easy to use for those less tech literate.
One thing I didn't see mentioned, assuming you're all on Apple devices: Add your parents as "children" to your iCloud account. That'll let you restrict access to things and reset their password if necessary.
I refuse to do tech support for relatives. It's like getting into any other kind of business with them: a bad idea.
If they want a computer, they deal with the fallout when they screw it up.
The most I'll do if they ask about technology is is ask "what do you want to do with it" and the answer will almost certainly be iPad or Chromebook.
ChromeBooks are great for this since all they really need is a web browser.
I got sick of repairing and rebuilding my in-laws windows PC about 7 years ago and moved them over to the largest ipads that were available at the time. It was 100% the right move. I haven't had to fix their computer in the past 7 years. Bought refurbs to keep the price down but it was still a couple grand total for two units. I got the cell enabled ones too so they work when they travel. Totally worth it.
A couple years ago I finally got them to switch from their pre-paid flip phone to an iphone. That's also gone extremely well. They own a Thor RV which (no surprise) has a terrible OEM stereo. Replaced that with a carplay capable one with a giant (but pretty low res) screen and that's made their RV travel GPS integration far less buggy than when using plain old bluetooth.
TBH moving them to iOS from windows was far less of a painful process than I expected and I'm pretty apple positive. The fact that it just works and they really can't 'f it up makes a big difference. Now they can download all sorts of shit games and I really don't have to worry about the system getting hosed. If I considered how much I value my time and the frustration multiplier then it's an investment that has easily paid back in multiples.
Step 1: https://ublockorigin.com/
Have you considered chromeOS for the pc, I’ve had pretty good luck with it as an is for kids, and you can lock a lot down with family controls
If it is mainly for web-browsing, then Linux Mint, with only a web-browser (uBlock extension), and an Office suite. How can you go wrong with that ?
It depends on the usage of course. If there's a need to manage pictures from the phone, some music etc... then Mac OS with non admin account. Buy a 1 To external hard drive and setup Time Machine, you can't go wrong with that neither.
Didn’t want to move away from Windows and Android so:
- declutterred both to the greatest extent possible - made sure auto updates were working - installed Chrome Remote Desktop on the PC and a remote app on phone
I might get 4-5 questions per year and when I visit I’ll make sure everything is working and updated
Being able to remote in from 12,000 km away is a godsend. It’s usually some minor issue like a setting or update stuck.
The elderly are the most susceptible to falling into dark patterns, and most commercial software nowadays is full of them.
Windows 11 was the last straw, I ended up moving my grandma to Gnome. And I control her desktop remotely whenever she needs help.
Also smartphones are too cumbersome after a certain age, when you have subpar reaction time and large fingers.
I moved them to android (Samsung) tablets: never had any issues.
I moved some elderly friends in my village to Ubuntu without root pass and Tailscale so I can login. Also zero maintenance/issues.
The only times when I get questions is Windows Home with the administrator account and ‘everything’ being generally ‘not working’ after ‘an update’. Sigh.
Blast from the past, but might be useful. Sun tentatively made a computer that ran from cdrom, as TAILS does. The OS was immutable. You could store files on external media. Presumably, have those backed up in time-machine fashion, so as the be able to recover lost files, rather than a snapshot backup.
What a struggle computers are. I am old as dirt but supposedly on top of things. Apple Mail.app forgot my sender address and kept asking me for a "hide my email" From: address. Being a propeller-head, I found it and fixed it. What a fright it must be when things go bonkers and you have no clue.
I don't recall where user settings go on a cdrom OS. Perhaps on a separate home partition or overlay on removable RW storage.
Can't speak for phones.
I feel for them. I've got a backup image of wife's parents macbook air and ipad that I've had to use a few times. I was using remote desktop software but they once clicked a fullscreen "Your Computer is Infected" ad and followed "Apple Support's" instructions to download a new RD app and give them full control. Luckily the give full control dialog got lost behind the web scam fullscreen. I got rid of remote desktop apps and told them to never allow remote desktop apps again. I've come to the conclusion that any sort of banking or account tied to money is too much of a risk.
Honestly, quitting is an option. My Grandma gave up on email because it was frustrating, especially after her account got locked out thanks to Google’s weird security setup and her lack of recovery options.
I was a bit upset about it at first. I wanted her to be connected to the family. I made her a new paid email managed by me. She didn’t want it.
But it turns out, it’s not that hard to stay connected the old fashioned way.
I send her photos in the mail with Shutterfly. I call her. I visit her. She doesn’t really need a computer for anything. The finances are handled by the family now, but before that she’d just walk into the bank branch or brokerage office.
I might argue that they are a little closer to not being independent than you think.
Still, some of the advice around here could help. Definitely use mobile device management. Migrate to iPad or Chromebook style devices rather than a full operating system. Take airplane mode out of the control center. Remove all the options they shouldn’t touch. Explore the accessibility options, set the text size and cursors big enough.
My MIL has early dementia. We are trying to keep her living at home as long as possible but her mental decline has made it more and more difficult. Her behavior is getting more and more out of control. She has an iPhone she is attached to. She has YouTube on 24 hours a day. That and she uses FaceTime. Looking back, we should have gotten her an iPhone with a physical home button. Sometimes she forgets how to swipe away apps. In frustration she turns the phone off. Don’t get me started about all the scams. There is a not scammer she completely trusts and will argue non stop with my wife that my wife should listen to the scammer and sign over the house etc.
Semi-relatedly, I had my parents sign up for https://www.charlie.com/ There are a bunch of great anti-fraud features including one that lets me be a co-pilot on their account.
Some features: it doesn't allow transactions while they are asleep, can block all transactions online except for merchants that you allow, limit international spend, and they have a feature that you can forward any email that you are curious about and it'll tell you if it's likely to be fraud.
highly recommend.
If possible, buy them an old iPhone 7/8/10/11. These are fairly cheap at this point and hard to brick or infect.
For PC, just install ChromeOS Flex! It is super barebones and locked down, so even if they download stuff, it is hard to install anything and File Explorer does not give direct access to OS files. You can Turn On linux dev env and install some interesting applications using flatpak, which are adequate and still has limited access to everything unless they are savvy enough to go tinkering around with apt tools.
Linux Mint.
I moved my parents to it from Windows and they never realised since they only use Thunderbird and Firefox.
Never had any issues since then.
Fedora Silverlight for PC.
Or ChromeOS Flex, if you need only the browser. Basically zero maintenance system.
iPad and iPhone for mobile devices, they just work. I think slightly outdated devices are the best: they still very good, are cheap and won’t attack with the updates. These days I would say it’s iPhones 6S or 7, and iPad Air 2 or even iPad Pro 12.9 (1st Gen.). They are very cheap, still support all of the basic apps and are very good for anyone. Even I myself use the devices from that epic till today.
Everybody's suggesting changing to Apple or Chrome products, which sounds like a good idea to me.
With my parents, who are 80 and having an increasingly hard time using technology, I have the added complication that my dad (who is the acknowledged tech guy in their marriage and who probably has OCD) absolutely hates everything Apple, and, now that he in turn manages his 90-year-old sister's use of her Chromebook, is dead set against getting a ChromeOS device either.
Voice-Activated Assistant App
Hi everyone, I am considering developing an app, which the adult can activate using voice, it will take a picture of his screen and know the details of the device, and help him in context using voice.
For example, if he can't find something in the settings, he can say "Hi Pal", and the application will appear, "I want to increase the brightness of my screen" and then step by step it will lead him on the specific device to finish the task. It may be complex to develop, but it seems to me that there is a lot of need for it.
There seems to be a lot of relevant people here. Do you think this app would be helpful? Do you have any suggestions or feedback on the concept? Thank you for your time and insights!
We keep all our parents on iPhone + iPad combo. All of them are very heavy iPad users, sometimes it seems they spend 90% of their time reading something in iPad. Honestly, we do not have any issues to resolve at all, everything just works. My wife’s father used to be moderate Excel user for his small business needs, it was a challenge to convince him to try Google Sheets / Docs as alternative but he switched over time.
Around 2005 I was using deep freeze for 20ish Windows 2000 public computers with only documents folder mutable so people could save stuff in there. Worked like magic. I'm not related with the product, just sharing my experience. YMMV.
For PC, I have a relied on ancient Acer Chromebooks for my family and it's worked amazingly. Only trouble they get into is accepting spammy Web Notification prompts.
If I had to get them a PC that wasn't a Chromebook, I'd consider VanillaOS or some other immutable distro.
EDIT: Oh, and uBlock Origin is essential.
If you're looking for an easy way to restore Windows to a known-working state, this might be useful: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/iot/iot-enterprise...
It is amazing to see that the recommendation "put them on Apple, enable parent control, it just works" is countered with an argument from an Android user who does not understand the point: using Apple vs. Android / Windows is about how the product make you feel.
Hypothesis: Android UX is more inconsistent compared to IOS and some inexperienced users get anxiety because of that.
Hypothesis: on Android and Windows it is much simply to get maleware etc. then on Apple, because Apple can be closed down completly (and this is great!)
Hypothesis: on Android and Windows you can damage the account/system very easily with a non-admin User, on Apple this is much less likely
Hypothesis: on Android and Windows the amount of admin work needed to keep the device alive is much higher then on Apple
I live this every week. I regularly get calls from my dad about a phone, computer or tablet that is not working right. When I address it, it is always either he is using it incorrectly or we can't reproduce the error a second time--which usually means he wasn't using it correctly.
One thing that has helped is getting him better with voice instructions on his iPhone and Amazon tablet. When he messes up the device by clicking on something, he doesn't know where to tap to fix it but he can tell it to do so verbally. That has reduced the amount of tech support calls.
I also have Team Viewer installed and set up so I can just remote into their computer. I had to delete the shortcuts for Edge (and IE when it was there) because they are more likely to download a searchbar or something than they are with Firefox.
We have switched to chrome boxes and chrome books for our aging parents.
It's not perfect, but at least they are less likely to get viruses or spyware, which was about every 6 months with Windows.
What is it with older people and their penchant to install every possible crapware they encounter, no matter how strongly you warn them?
Lots of good suggestions here but I have a comment. My 90 year old uncle lives near me so I can pop round and help with problems. Trouble is mostly bad UI on web sites.
- finding the login button
- cookie/consent popups blocking page and causing confusion (especially those that dim entire web page).
- finding the close button ("x") on the above
- dynamic UI surprises and confuses basic usage
This week he tried to login to a finance web site from an email they sent him. The only links on the web site were twitter and facebook (UI icons). No actual links to their site, so he failed to login. He was trying to login to their Facebook site using the web site credentials.
The internet/web is very poorly designed for many oldies (and not just them).
Lastly, if they're messing up settings or deleting things, it just needs to be locked down. Tough but better than broken.
I’ve had great success with Bluefin OS. It’s immutable, updates itself flawlessly and automatically, but is still easy to install and remove apps on. Show them where the Firefox button is and you’re done. Plus, it’ll run great on a 2013 Dell Optiplex, or whatever else is lying around.
I think there is a “common repository of knowledge and tools” missing.
I expect there is some dodgy company selling this as a “manage your older parents” app. BUt really this is a social thing. As is “how do I set up a openwrt router to replace my crappy ISP” and “what’s the best way to handle time on YouTube with my 11 year old” and a hundred similar problems that really matter to people
Some of this will be informed by scientific studies - ut these will be easier to do by using the phones themselves. Imagine a double blind study on YouTube habits for 9 year olds, where the researcher gets to download history and run weekly surveys with parents in behaviour etc etc
I am not too sure where I am going but there is as always a missing third space here
90 year old grandma test is the ultimate test of quality and usability of your software/hardware.
Telling from experience - 99% of modern products don't even come close to passing the test.
_Some_ of features of _some_ of apple products come close though.
As a personal successful experiment: NixOS/Xfce o Gnome Shell (require a bit of extra work due to not really smart basic design and extensions fragility), basically the system read-only, home on zfs with snapshots ensure enough local data safety against accidental deletion/bad change. Keeping it up to date is just only updating the config when needed and rebuild.
No commercial software so far offer anything as stable, no classic distro/OS can offer something as stable.
About phones: a Motorola GSM desktop phone for some, a Punkt for those who accept&like a mobile device that's apt for seniors while not crappy as most "for seniors" crap.
I would just go for an iPad with, if necessary, MDM of some kind. With Stage Manager and an external monitor they're fully functional as pseudo-Macs at this point, as long as you don't need anything outside of the App Store.
Hands down Apple products. They all work together well, last a good long time, and have good software coverage.
iPads are the best for those that just need the internet. The MacBook Air is good enough for the advanced stuff, and reasonably priced.
Roku is the one product that I don't think needs the Apple replacement. It is super simple to use, has a simple remote, was easy to tie into a sound system for them. They liked Roku so much that they replaced their older EOL TVs with Roku TVs. Also, I'll lump Sonos into this as they make a great sound product that easily connects to the TV and auto comes on, which is fantastic.
Maybe try Windows S mode ? This is a locked down mode of Windows home edition where you can only install apps from MS store and there are many other restrictions that will prevent accidentally breaking your system.
Consider setting up Screen Time too. My Mum spends literally hours each day on Facebook and Amazon. It's easy for the elderly to get addicted to Facebook and shopping when there isn't much else to do
If you have the local infrastructure for it (or do it on cloud) VDI is an option. It's easy to snapshot, backup, and reimage, and if you store their files on a network drive a reimage won't affect it. You can also easily remotely access their machines to install software and inspect the machine, and you'll be doing so anyways as they shouldn't have root privileges.
VDI can be usably fast even with no GPU; for instance with a 8GBx8vCPU instance on an Ivy Bridge server I can actually watch 1080p Youtube with no frame drops.
iPad with the keyboard was transformative for my in laws. If they need a PC, a MacBook in user mode.
Otherwise a MacBook without admin rights.
Whatever beef people have with Apple, it’s a better solution for this scenario, period. When elders start struggling with these issues, it can make them feel helpless and fearful… avoiding that is both a technical solution issue and quality of life issue.
Futzing around with Intune is a waste of time and requires upkeep. In most situations, you can leave an iPad in place for 4-6 years with no fiddling.
A Chromebook a good option.
Not PCs, but I consider my parents’ network an extension of mine (with their consent, of course). They are on Unifi gear that I can completely remotely manage.
Forget the PC, move them to iOS devices, and if it’s really bad, set them up as a child account so you can restrict actions like installing or removing apps.
How are they removing system files when the machine is locked down? If you do not grant them local admin permissions and properly configure windows defender and remoting software that should be your solution. You can make the WiFi connection automatic/mandatory with local policies. I have to suggest the "locking down" part was not done properly or at all if a user was able to remove system files.
My current issue in this space is the win11/outlook transition, confusion about connecting all of their accounts with Microsoft online accounts, and new outlook simply not working with our imap setup. (Your imap username must be your email address, and our setup is not that)
What’s the best classic old school imap email client for windows these days?
Don’t, let them pay for support like a normal person. “I work with servers not phones/pcs”. Cruel? Maybe but so is their taking advantage of their tech literate family.
We actually have a local shop that does really good work. If more tech people refused to do free tech support, this could be a thriving niche (and put geek squad out of business).
Like so many other commenters here, buy them Apple. Macbook Airs to replace their PCs and iPhones to replace their phones.
MacOS and iOS are specifically designed to be used by the average man, they're the right tool for this job.
Also: Do not make them use Linux unless you want your time spent as tech support to increase. Just don't.
My wife has survived more than half a dozen strokes.
She accidentally moves around the icons on her Pixel phone until we can not even bring back the list of all apps you get by swiping up.
I need a way to lock down the icons so it would take a very coordinated person to unlock them, but Google refuses to allow that.
There is a huge market (IMO) for elderly/"boomer" support for all kinds of technologies. One thing that made me think about it was seeing an ad for a simple phone designed for seniors that includes "unlimited support" - actually I think it was this: https://www.lively.com/phones/jitterbug-smart4/
Made me think of how many older people are out there who do not have a child or family member type "tech support" person who helps them out. There's millions of them out there. I think there's a large market for that.
To dedicate a device to one app, iOS/macOS has single-app / kiosk mode via Apple Configurator.
My grandma's pretty good with her Android phone, but every month, she calls us totally lost because apps like WhatsApp keep messing with the UI. Why do they have to change the interface so often? Most times, these changes seem pointless and just confuse her.
A problem I had was my grandma's phone battery running out. I made a little Android app that sent the battery level to an API which then put it into a storage bucket so I could see it remotely.
Tell your friend to call his parents more - Most parental ‘tech issues’ escalate as an excuse to see and talk to their children more, rather than the flash attention they usually need to settle for.
I got 2 Chromebooks 8-10y ago and never looked back. No maintenance calls, ever.
VNC + Tailscale. I can VNC into their machines at any time and help them.
I setup my parent's routers to use my NextDNS account and turned on adblock and scam/malware filtering. It has help cut down on a ton of issues they might have seen otherwise.
Not for managing phone, but I highly recommend https://baldphone.com/ as Android UI/skin for elderly
Whatever kind of desktop is used, Chrome Remote Desktop is the most reliable way I've seen of connecting to deal with stuff. Better than Teamviewer too.
My parents are retired and not as computer literate as I hope, and they prefer to keep it that way.
They have Apple products - iPhones, iPads and the Genius Bar takes great care of them.
I really wish there was a way to easily remote control my 104 old grandpa's smart TV... It's not as simple as you'd think
check their stocks
Old people should sell their investments and enjoy themselves more. That's the whole point of investments.
Sigh. I'm a career IT guy; this is yet another thing I'll want to preplan and have ready for my kids.
MacOS + TimeMachine + iPhone/iPad + Chrome/Google + Chrome Remote Desktop is my 'elderly stack'
It's going to be super interesting when millions of my fellow tech-savvy gen-Xers get really old.
It's obvious that you're on Android + PC because these is truly an outdated question.
I use tailscale and ssh+RDP/vnc setup on all my machines. Makes maintaining them super easy.
Android phones have some decent remote access tools, in addition to the mdm of android and iOS.
I used team viewer in the past, for trouble shooting. I had it all setup so I could join in one click. But then they updated team viewer and everyone need accounts etc, so the solution became part of the problem and I ditched it.
Nowadays, windows has "quick assist", which works flawlessly to help one windows user as another.
Seeing your elders, who used to be fine with desktop computing, slowly struggling more and more because UX "developers" are a fucking joke is infuriating.
I am profoundly grateful that my dad (84) is still very healthy, mentally acute, and tech-literate enough to avoid scams. If anything, he's even more paranoid than I am.
But he will have nothing to do with smartphones even though he's a long time gadget freak with an engineering background, and at this point my mom would have difficulty using anything other than a landline. I got them onto VoIP with an unlocked analog telephone adapter some years back when the poorly maintained landline (loud hum when plugged into the demarc) became too horrible to use.
His frustrations with Windows 10 (and MS's irritating habit of "helpfully" changing your settings) are about to the boiling point, but there's a hell of a lot of Stockholm syndrome involved in getting him to use anything else, not to mention he still uses a DOS app via DOSbox. I'm not sure how insufferable Windows will need to get before he would be willing to jump ship. Windows 8 was enough for me, but only because I can do anything I personally need on any random Linux distro.
iPad + explain how to use FaceTime which can do screensharing with the click of a button without installing anything.
Could even use the shortcuts app to put a big „Call son“ button on the homescreen.
seeing all the comments where people install Linux on their parents computers...
Is this because it's hacker news, or is Linux becoming a non-crazy option for parents?
I moved my mum over to iPad while she was still around. Best thing ever. Much easier to use for elderly people and it does absolutely everything she needed to do without the hassle of a full blown desktop OS.
Nokia, that's all
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Put them on Apple gear, seriously.
Lifelong Android user, and I know nothing about Apple, but when it came time for them to upgrade from their OG Razr's last year, I was at a crossroads. These people are tech illiterate. I ended up telling them to buy IPhone.
Believe it or not, they mostly figured it all out pretty easily. They still get confused and scared by FB video calls coming in, but otherwise are able to talk, text, use social media, etc. So much so they even bought an iPad.
It seems the reason I like Android - tons of options and customizability, are the exact opposite of what an older user wants from their device.