On Old Age

stanrivers | 131 points

I'm 50 now, and this is going to be hard for me because I've got little practice in dealing with disability. Even now, I'm about to run a celebratory 50k rather than my usual yearly 42k marathon. I will never again break my best time, but it's my annual proof that I can still do this thing.

And yet it's coming. Bifocals are in my near future. I have very preliminary symptoms of prostate trouble. I'm not used to needing any kind of help for anything or having to take a pill every single day, but I need to get ready for that, because it's going to happen. Not today, not tomorrow, but soon, and for the rest of my life.

It could have happened at any point. I'm incredibly fortunate to be so healthy. I ate well-ish and exercised, but lots of people do more and become disabled through accident or less fortunate genetics. I think Cicero would agree that I've lived more or less nobly; I've done my best, or at least my pretty-good.

I'm not afraid of it being over, but I'm trying to figure out how to deal with "the same ills would befall him and all other old men". I don't expect acquired wisdom to suffice: I honestly don't think I've gotten any spectacular insights "reason and good judgement". As for the "old men [without whom] no state would have existed at all", I really don't think posterity is going to look kindly on us.

Posterity isn't really what I'm worried about. I just want to live a decent life, where "decent" has always been defined as being able to continue to do what I've always done. Doors will gradually close. There's a tee-shirt that they sell at marathons to the tune of "Some day I will not be able to do this. Today is not that day." At 50 I'm able to see the point at which today is that day. I've got a while to adjust to it, but the adjustment itself is uncomfortable, and Cicero's not really making me feel better.

jfengel | 4 years ago

Cicero is one of the Roman gems that people tend to miss out on. He lived more than 2000 years ago, and written many works on Greek philosophy (including the works of Plato, Stoics, Epicureans, et al); and some of his own. He often claims that he doesn't take sides, but aims for what is most "probable". Although, in some cases he leans heavily towards Stoic ethics (despite his love for Plato's Academy).

Besides the "On Old Age", some recommended English translations of his works:

On Duties — this volume is divided into three 'books'; the first 'book' covers Stoic ethics in highly compressed form. Recommended English translation: "Cicero On Duties (Cambridge Texts in the History of Political Thought)"; it also has very useful footnotes.

Tusculan Disputations — horrendous name (more correctly called: "Discussions at my villa in Tusculum"), but excellent content. It covers five themes ("disputations"); two of them written when Cicero was grieving from the sudden death of his daughter. I suggest these two translations, which cover the five themes: (a) "On Life and Death" (Oxford World's Classics); translation by John Davie; – this covers the themes 1, 2, 5, and other essays; and (b) "Cicero Emotions", by Margaret Graver – this brilliant volume covers the 4th and 5th disputations, with unparalleled commentary by Graver.

Bonus: "On the Good Life" (Penguin Classics) also reads well. It has two parts from "On Duties", and a few essays by Cicero, including one on friendship.

kashyapc | 4 years ago

I'm 62 now, enjoying the benefits of endurance sports and moderation in eating and drinking through most of my adult life. I know much of my relative well-being is due to genetics and luck. I know many family members, friends, and co-workers who have not been as fortunate, despite having been even more diligent in taking care of themselves. I see the frequent infirmities of my 10 year older friends who also took good care of themselves, and I know viscerally that my turn is coming. I'm happily beyond the ordeals of training and competition, and using this post-work healthy time to enjoy the wild places while I still can.

vibrolax | 4 years ago

A reminder that research efforts into repairing the damage of aging (effectively undoing aging) do exist.

SENS[0] is a 501(c)(3) public charity directing and funding such research.

[0]: https://www.sens.org/

snvzz | 4 years ago

"Those who live in the desert learn to worship thirst." — vharuck

There's no reason we should accept the consequences of old age without a fight. Donate to SENS, or even better, dedicate your own work to extending human healthspan.

See also: The Fable of the Dragon-Tyrant by CGP Grey — https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cZYNADOHhVY

cosmojg | 4 years ago

Bold words from a man who, to the best of my knowledge, never acknowledged or reckoned with the role that his own dictatorial handling of the Catiline conspirators played in the fall of the Republic.

throwanem | 4 years ago

Imagine being a slave and hearing this guy say it's all within you to live a happy life:

>For to those who have not the means within themselves of a virtuous and happy life every age is burdensome

vsareto | 4 years ago

I still think we should make longevity research a priority.

warbaker | 4 years ago

I see a very common misunderstanding of Stoic thought in this thread. It doesn’t advocate passivity. As a matter of fact, the Roman Stoic school was a school of many doers and had a very cosmopolitan outlook.

Stoicism simply advocates an indifference to things outside of your control. You should not be perturbed by your emotions; your perceptions and reactions are the roots of your suffering. In our reality, and Cicero’s before, old age and death are inevitable. That does not mean we cannot attempt to prevent it or research a “solution” to it. It simply means in the interim our opinion of it should not perturb your inner peace (easier said than done!). The one thing you almost always have control over (forgiving biochemistry :D) are your opinions about things.

If that research was fruitful, then it _would_ be something in our control and the Stoic evaluation of it would change. Cicero‘s comments here are contextual and, I might add, beautiful.

SarikayaKomzin | 4 years ago

Cicero, like many other philosophers of antiquity, places ultimate value on the goal of 'a life well-lived'. In this essay, he basically says 'old age is fine, if you lived a good life beforehand', and hedges by saying death's no big deal.

Which is, of course, rubbish. That's not really how life works: rewards rarely follow your efforts to live a good life. There are often no rewards at all; a life of diligent savings can disappear in an instant, physical fitness can end with cancer, faithfulness can end in bitter disappointment. Attempting to 'optimize' your life, your finances, your career often put you in places you never wanted to be.

The Buddhists come closer to what life is really about: life is not a journey, it's a dance. And you can dance anytime; old age can be joyous anytime you choose to dance--you don't need a 'good life' preceding it to make it good. Or, TL;DR: All you ever have in life is this one moment, right now.

stakkur | 4 years ago

I thoroughly recommend the Cicero trilogy (Imperium, Lustrum, Dictator) by Robert Harris (https://www.amazon.com/Cicero-Trilogy-Robert-Harris-Collecti...) for a fictionalized, but thoroughly researched, story of his life and career.

ggambetta | 4 years ago

> Marcus Tullius Cicero was a Roman statesman, lawyer, scholar, and writer who tried to uphold republican principles in the final civil wars that destroyed the Roman Republic.

Cicero was a man who fought against the tribunes representing the vast majority of Roman citizens, and for the power of the idle class aristocracy which did not work.

He also was like an ancient embodiment of QAnon (which sees the US Democratic Party leadership as involved in a child sex conspiracy) - he accused populare aligned senators like Catiline of defiling the sacred Vestal virgins in Senate hearings.

ChomskyNormal4m | 4 years ago
[deleted]
| 4 years ago

Kind of off topic, but is Substack the new Medium? Seeing a lot of stuff from them lately.

war1025 | 4 years ago